On this Facebook post , Ivan quotes from Diana Butler Bass.
I posted a comment, and then copied it and started to create this blog post, but then edited it, since I was not quite happy with what I had posted, and then went back to that comment, hit “Edit” and added a link to this blog for further elaboration and clarification. But then a lot happened (see my comment below , in the comments section of this post)
And here is my blog post, after my edits, which I was in the process of implementing on the Facebook post when Ivan deleted them, so all that remains of that original discussion is here.
The blog post:
While all of this is obviously very thoughtful and very possibly accurate as to what is happening, I am bothered that in the process of exploring SEVEN major points, that none of these even mention the problem of ecological crisis, since Christianity in general has seemed largely unconcerned, and ignore it to the point of coming up with analyses (like this one) that somehow doesn’t even include it as “one of seven” major dimensions of “the current crisis”. That disturbs me.
It disturbs me mostly because I know Diana wrote “Grounded” (and I read it, and loved it). It disturbs me because I know there are indeed, OTHER things to talk about and be concerned about. But despite all that, I think we are out of time, and so unless we are constantly working all of our fields of mission and vocation with the larger, more urgent case of the danger we are facing, we may fall into the trap of letting ourselves be “distracted” by these truly important “other” matters.
See my quandary here? It’s very difficult to express these misgivings. I cannot be, and am not, unconcerned, nor can I say that we need to drop all of these other things and EVERYONE give 100% to participating in the global revolution and Church Reformation that is required. And I realize that my injecting that concern here, in reaction to this particular example, may come off as unreasonable. After all, EVERY conversation can’t be about the Climate Crisis. But I see this “neglect” happen way too often. I believe the neglect is real and based in a denial of just how serious this is. I just want to see the sense of urgency jacked up by quite a bit. It REALLY needs to feel and appear as Revolution and Reformation.
It’s not that I feel like none of those 7 points are not important, or worth worrying about, or even doing something about. Perhaps it is like a person who has multiple crises to face at one time. Like when there is a tragic loss of life that hits one family or set of friends, like a car accident that takes multiple lives of a circle of friends. Maybe one of the deaths was another member of their immediate family. The survivors are forced to deal with and be with others, even as they must deal with their own sense of loss. They make the rounds of the funeral visitations of multiple friends, even as they know that they have to return to work and go on, given that they still have to support themselves and the survivors in the immediate family. The Climate Crisis seems to me to be like this. In a close knit community, none of these other friends and loved ones are to be told “I can’t think about you right now”. But we are, so to speak, FORCED to deal with the more immediate, as it is with us every day as we face the constant reminders of the absence of the departed from our immediate family. Our IMMEDIATE FAMILY loss here, in this example, is the Climate Crisis. The tragedies unfold around us and affect many people, worldwide. They need and require attention, but so does that which is most immediate to us, and those closest to us. (And again, in this analogy, “closest to us” is the Climate Crisis.
I particularly see this in play amongst all the major mainline denominations, who are, for the most part, “on board” with the reality of Climate Change. They haven’t really brought it into the everyday. There are maybe a couple of articles from their news agencies every 4-6 months. This is not exactly indicative of a true realization of what we face, and how urgent it is that we awaken to a need for massive theological and institutional reformation.
I would also like to add that when I originally wrote on the comment: “Even amongst people who obviously believe in the Climate Crisis like Bass, there is a disturbing lack of real urgency that just doesn”™t seem to realize the gravity of the crisis.”, I was extremely sloppy in separating two things: Diana Butler Bass, who I meant to point out that she obviously “believes in Climate Change”, but that there are, AMONGST those who say they believe in Climate Change, there are those whose LACK of focus and sense of urgency about this lead to their constant neglect of the impact and relevance of it in the priority we give it in considering how we are preaching, teaching, communicating, and living. It was also awkward and likely to be confusing that I used the occasion of this particular list (one given by someone actually NOT a good example of the “neglect” I am bemoaning) to try to finally explain my frustrations with how many times I see lists like this with no mention of Climate Change. I would not be at all surprised to see some of my own posts holding forth on some issue where I don’t include it in my own brief thoughts on the matter. I’m always frustrated when people do that to me, and jump to some conclusion about what I am saying based on how I “neglected” this other issue.
So can I start over with this? Perhaps I should pick on the UMNS service, and the rarity with which I see Climate Crisis related stories, all the while churning out story after story on other “politically sensitive” issues like LGBT rights and Black Lives Matter. Neither of those is unimportant and deserves coverage and lots of conversation. But to NOT be just as diligent and focused on the issues around the Climate Crisis is a massively irresponsible lack of attention.
Interesting things happened on the post where I posted the above referenced comments. Ivan wrote this:
” Dale Lature, I think it would be a good idea if you deleted this and the other comment.”
after a couple of replies from Diana Bass
Here’s the whole thread, which Ivan deleted himself, but fortunately not until after I thought I should copy it before it was gone. To my dismay, not only was it gone, but I no longer have access to Ivan’s Facebook. (This has been corrected. I sent a Friend request along with a note about how unneccesary I thought it was to “unfriend me”, and Ivan “re-friended” me. But he had nothing to say about it, nor did he return any of my attempts to contact him, which is a little baffling, but I guess he want sto keep our “contact” completely online and just ignore the concerns I had about the whole matter of how this even happened in the first place) I tried to send him a message on Google. I’m trying email , too. Something terribly amiss in that kind of a response, and something which I don’t think Ivan really understands about Social Media, nor about some minimal patience with sticking out a debate about something rather important (especially since the party who was most “confronted” accepted and thanked me for my explanation/clarification).
The thread:
Me: While all of this is obviously very thoughtful and very possibly accurate as to what is happening, I am bothered that in the process of exploring SEVEN major points, that none of these even mention the problem of ecological crisis, since Christianity in general has seemed largely unconcerned, and ignore it to the point of coming up with analyses (like this one) that somehow doesn’t even include it as “one of seven” major dimensions of “the current crisis”. That disturbs me.
Even amongst people who obviously believe in the Climate Crisis like Bass, there is a disturbing lack of real urgency that just doesn’t seem to realize the gravity of the crisis. (More on this in a below comment. This was understandably misunderstood, based on a lack of the further details of my feelings on this, which I put in a blog post here: http://ecoecclesia.org/?ecoecclesia=missing-sense-of-urgency-in-our-attention-to-other-worthy-problems ) I particularly see this in play amongst all the major mainline denominations, who are, for the most part, “on board” with the reality of Climate Change. They haven’t really brought it into the everyday. There are maybe a couple of articles from their news agencies every 4-6 months. This is not exactly indicative of a true realization of what we face, and how urgent it is that we awaken to a need for massive theological and institutional reformation.
Diana Bass: I just wrote an ENTIRE book on that — this is a random FB post trying to discern the outlines of a journalistic agenda to pursue during the Age of Trump. If you think I possess a “disturbing lack of real urgency” re: the climate crisis, come to my house for dinner sometime. Or chat with my friend Bill McKibben. He’ll let you know how un-urgent I am.
Diana Bass: Please don’t judge unless you KNOW.
Dale Lature: Diana Bass Oh, I know, Diana. I read it. And I loved it. And I didnt have this feeling about that book at all. I’m just divided about this particular list. I wrote a longer blog post about my above comment (which included it and expanded “” aka. filled in more detail and sought to clarify) …..and my hesitation in even raising such points is not wanting to get the responses like you just had……I have to say, I deleted the line : “Even amongst people who obviously believe in the Climate Crisis like Bass, there is a disturbing lack of real urgency that just doesn’t seem to realize the gravity of the crisis.” because it didn’t quite fit …it was too “judgmental” , and so I don’t begrudge you that. I apologize for leaving that intact (I may just delete it from my comment.
Ivan Schoen: Dale Lature, I think it would be a good idea if you deleted this and the other comment.
Dale Lature Diana Bass see my reply above and read my blog post. It’s my invitation to my version “please don’t judge ME unless you know” (and I DO know….and am removing that particular sentence because it awkwardly implicated you) and that obscured my larger point about too many Progressives who actually DONT exude such urgency.
Me: My blog post: http://ecoecclesia.org/?ecoecclesia=missing-sense-of-urgency-in-our-attention-to-other-worthy-problems
Me: Ivan Schoen have you read ALL my related comments (AND the blog post) that further explain? I think that although this started out testy, it was based on my starting it with an awkward, ill-worded claim, which I have took great pains to describe and explain. The other part of this is that this really illustrates WHY I have hesitancy about ever bringing up such things.
Ivan Schoen: I think your conversation on this vitally important subject needs to have its own thread, possibly on your own page.